Gay Christians

March 29, 2008 at 6:35 pm (Fróðleikr, Ríta) (, , , )

I am a Biblical literalist. When I read the Bible, I take what it says to be what it means.

The Bible, when it says, “These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.

And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:

They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.

Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you,” that is what it means.

This is a passage quoted from the King James version of the Bible. That means that anyone who uses the King James version of the Bible who eats shrimp, lobster, frogs, clams, oysters, crabs, duck, eel, seaweed or seaweed derivatives (found in ice creams, confections, drinks, salad dressings, etc.), is, by their own belief system, doomed to Hell for sinning.

Gay Christians are hypocrites, just as much as the shrimp-eaters. One cannot be gay and Christian, or gay and Jewish, or gay and Muslim.

If the Bible is the word of God, then it cannot be wrong. It must be obeyed to the letter until God hands us a new set of rules.

Try to obey these rules (KJV again):

“Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.” Matthew, 22:37

“Fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” Matthew, 10:28

“There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.” 1 John 4:18

God may have logic that is beyond human comprehension, but if God wants us, bound by logic, to follow a rule that breaks down logically into p and q and if q then not p, then God asks the impossible.

The Bible presents its readers with a choice:

either

1. Be a hypocrite.

or

2. Do not believe in the God of the Bible.

I find it puzzling that the vast majority of people, when they reach this impasse, select option 1.

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14 Comments

  1. trbaggett said,

    Now, before I say anything else, I’d like to say that I agree with you on homosexuality.

    But as far as the shrimp thing goes. Peter received a vision from God (Acts 10-13) concerning what can be eaten and what can’ t be eaten.

    9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.” 14″Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.” 15The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.” 16This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

    Don’t mean to burst a bubble or anything, just thought I’d make sure you knew that. Now, the passage does go on to say that Peter called men that were said to be impure pure, and that could be the meaning of this vision. But if you take things literally, then nothing is impure for eating. And another note on that subject. Most Old Testament law of Moses passed away when the new covenant was established in Christ. Except for Homosexuality and the like.

    On the homosexuality front again. I agree that they are being hypocrites by believing they are not in sin. This problem has plagued me for quite some time. But we shouldn’t hate them for doing this. We should try to help them. Help them realize that they are in fact in sin and need to repent of their sin.

  2. ataxas said,

    Shrimp and crabs are not “four-footed animals”, nor are they “reptiles of the earth” or “birds of the air”.

    The three passages I mentioned in John and Matthew are all in the New Testament, and they contradict each other taken as a whole.

    I am an atheist.

    [Edited to fix spelling mistake – presumably a typo, because I know how to spell, but I can’t remember.]

  3. trbaggett said,

    Then who are you to judge?

  4. ataxas said,

    I do not have to be a Christian to judge whether or not a behaviour is consistent within a belief system.

    If an infallible book of rules orders me to do something that is impossible, I must conclude that the book is not infallible.

    If an infallible book of rules orders me to abstain from a list of things, I cannot pick and choose which rules I adhere to and which I do not without denying the book’s infallibility.

    If the book is not infallible, it is not the word of God.

    If the book is not the word of God, and it is not infallible, what evidence is there that the God it mentions exists?

  5. growholy said,

    Very interesting, I was just wondering what you would do then with Jesus’s verse “cut your eye or hand if they lead you to sin” (I don’t have the exact words at hand). Would you take this literally as well?

    I would love to know your opinion. Thanks.

  6. ataxas said,

    Literal readings include basic metaphors, just as an accurate, literal reading of your comment could not fail to take in its basic sarcasm.

    Perhaps the Bible is more metaphorical than I imagine, and menstruating women can simply be told to “talk to the hand” for a week rather than being kept in a tent?

  7. thismomentnow said,

    I am gay, and I am a Christian.
    Let’s face it, most Christians pick and choose the parts of the bible they want to consider relevant. And the bible is a lot more clear on subjects such as divorce than it is on homosexuality.
    The Old Testament tells you it’s ok to own slaves. Do you think that is in keeping with Christ’s message?

  8. ataxas said,

    By your own words, Christ’s message is not inkeeping with the rest of the Bible.

    Therefore, the Bible is not infallible.

    Therefore, the Bible is not the word of God.

    If the book is not wholly true, why are the parts that tell you there is a God more believable than the bits that tell you not to wear different materials in one outfit?

    I live in hope that eventually someone will comment having read my entire post. I am an atheist. To me, being gay is as controversial as being redheaded.

    [Fixed. Why oh why do I keep typing “atheist” as “athiest”? I live in shame.]

  9. imolta said,

    The standard argument against Bible literalism is that the Bible isn’t the word of God; it’s the word of God as interpreted, recorded and translated by a bunch of people, who are fallible.

    Re: trbaggett. “Then who are you to judge?” If an atheist is, for some reason, unable or disallowed to judge theists, there are a few Christians (read: millions. re-read: you) who aren’t in a position to judge those whose faith or lifestyles differ from their own – say, for example, gays.

    Although I suppose that *would* explain the seemingly endless supply of closeted gay politicians and clergy.

  10. ataxas said,

    The standard argument is precisely what I am objecting to. I didn’t anticipate the replies I got.

  11. Seasons said,

    I beg to differ with you. There is this post written by a friend of mine and although in written in jest raises pertinent questions about the bible and homosexuality that no Christian or bible theorist I know has been able to answer correctly.

    The link is http://kenyangay.blogspot.com/2006/05/bible-and-homosexuality.html

  12. ataxas said,

    Please to read my post before commenting.

  13. Stephen Jones said,

    I’m Christian and gay; However, I believe God condemns the act of homosexuality and therefore I live a celibate lifestyle. Matthew 19:12 says this, “For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

    I completely agree with you regarding the act of homosexuality; However, please show me in the Bible where God condemns sexuality itself. God created you, me and the rest of the human beings on this planet. He created all of us, including our sexuality.

    Visit http://eighty7steveo.wordpress.com for more discussion about faith and sexuality. Thanks so much for posting this. I agree and disagree (on some things). God bless.

  14. ataxas said,

    Hi Stephen,

    Thank you very much for your post. It saddens me greatly that you cannot experience the joy that is human sexuality due to your faith.

    I hope that you are a well-adjusted person; my own life has been fraught with guilt and insecurity because of a variety of reasons, not limited to a string of tragic deaths of people I care about stretching back to my early childhood, a world view that may actually be an anxiety disorder that may or may not be situationally based, and my inability to judge quality as pertains to my self, my looks, my achievements, and so forth.

    None of this mess is based in something as concrete as faith (although it is true that my view of morality is occasionally involved).

    Please write back. I am interested to know of your experiences as a gay, celibate Christian, but only if you are inclined. Are you happy? Do you ask yourself why God made you this way, or perhaps do you believe that your sexual preferences are due to your personal sin? (Please don’t think that I’m implying that those are the only choices!)

    I wish I had something I could say to you with the same sentiment as “God bless”. “Good luck” sounds trite, so I’ll make do with this:

    With affection,
    – ataxas

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